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Where on earth have all these gonzo-dog green bozos come from? It’s become quite apparent in the last few weeks that if you were to turn over a stone in Edinburgh, a Hibs fan would crawl out from under it. Unbelievable. 38,000 of them, yet their average attendance is about 7,000. These same idiots will no doubt be the same crowd who complain about Old Firm “Glory Hunters”. Physician heal thyself. And another thing, one or two odd exceptions aside, it’s also become clear that the influx of cheap skag from the newly “liberated” Afghanistan has warped the minds of the poor souls. Some of the illiterate and often unintelligible drivel that has been spouted by this green army of imbeciles gives me serious cause for concern.
Anyway, plenty to talk about…including my clear need for a stronger cup of tea. Without further ado…
Following on from our footballing masterclass against Motherwell, we were ultimately brought down to earth at the ever-infuriating venue of Dens Park. A pleasant surprise first of all …
MAMS: “Well done Dundee FC
Adults - £9
Concessions - £1 (under 16 and over 65)” Indeed, well done.
JimM: “Excellent price.
I wasn't going to go, but now we may all go up and make a Day of it.
This just shows how Football brings people into the location creating additional spending for local business. Come on Livi get the commercials sorted and encourage people into the area not only by putting bums on seats but by pulling in their spending power. Work together to make the business and football more attractive!” As it turns out, this whole deal works out as pretty much cash-neutral in terms of its success. However, the whole point is to get more bodies to go. Higher attendances (if not a higher take at the gate) generally mean a better atmosphere, which in turn means that people are likely to continue to go, which in turn lends itself to oft-mentioned “sustainability” and so on. Somebody has to bite the bullet and put the talk into practice; set these prices for a whole season and see what happens – it’ll be a brave, brave club that does that…big risk, but potentially big rewards over the longer term…
Sadly, our dismal Dens “hoodoo” continues, with a 1-0 defeat. Still, we’re in a cup final, eh?
AndyK: “Lovely passing but fairly inept general performance, lost a bad goal when Milne was picked up by Dorado or McAllister. Very niggly game lot of yellow cards, Dorado should have walked for kicking out, weak penalty claim (Pasq pushed player first). Thought ref was good, consistent and let play flow when possible.”
Plug (psst, do you want to buy a watch): “Fernandez is a fantastic player with the ability to turn opposing players inside out in his quest to deliver the telling ball, but when he isn't interested and apparently unable to remember that football is a team game, he reduces the team to 10 men. [controversial, but I tend to agree]
Yesterday, he might as well have stayed at home IMO. The times he had the ball with the chance to play somebody in but because he didn't lift his head and see the pass, the chance was wasted, was unbelievable.
I'm fed up with his constant moaning that others players have the cheek to tackle him and take the ball away. Get on with it man!
I'll accept getting beat but not accept players who strut about like fancy Dans(sp?).
Goals, or the lack of, is our main problem at the moment.
I don't think that we have come from behind to win this season. We go behind, we don't win. That's not good.” You could apply that to most of the SPL, though it doesn’t excuse it.
Lionick: “Agree with most of the comments regarding Saturday's game.
Fernandez looked disinterested and never made a run to help out the midfield. Too often he was standing around waiting for the ball. The fastest he moved all day was to the bench when he was subbed (which should have happened half an hour earlier).
Lovell [hooray!] was the best Livi player on the field. McKenzie had nothing to do except pick the ball out of the net and he had no chance with it. The defence were all dragged towards the ball to leave Milne free.
Once again we failed to use the width of the pitch and Dundee were as bad if not worse. We dominated but never threatened to score. [sounds familiar]
Dorado kicked out at the Dundee player and then repeated the kicking motion as if demonstrating what had happened [yeah yeah]. Dundee player wasn't innocent but I can't recall exactly what he did.
Didn't notice Pasq shoving anybody at the penalty claim and it was definitely hand ball by the Dundee defender.
I thought the ref had a decent first half but got as bored as the rest of us in the second.”
Finally, Spike has something to say about the vocal attributes of our fine away…
“Thankfully I didn't hear the oh-so-witty-and-noisy chants of the Livi support, as I had my headphones listening to the delightfully soothing and dulcet tones of U2's Zooropa album.
Far better than listening to the support...although I'd rather listen to Peter Andre and Mr Blobby than to our endlessly repeated three songs... [I bought the Mr Blobby song, to the endless mirth of the assistant in Virgin as I was also buying Electric Ladyland at the same time – what can I say, I was in my early 40s and it was just a phase]
Livi 'til I die...
Stand up...
There's only one *insert name of warming-up sub who has to offer pathetic wave in acknowledgement*
Bo, and for example, ring.” A fair point, but why not use your wit and intellect to contribute? What would you suggest? Perhaps you could team up with one of our resident musicians and pen an inspiring and catchy club chant? Zooropa was (and indeed still is) class, as an aside.
All Hail Mr Hood, hero of the ‘vale. It has been decided that swordfights, random punishment beatings and stick-eye-interface-accidents have either reduced in likelihood or declined in significance, and as such you can bring a metre-long piece of “solid” bamboo into the ground. Provided it has a flag on it.
MAMS: “Further to discussions with Alistair Hood (the clubs Security Officer), it has been decided that flags on sticks (garden cane) will now be allowed into the City Stadium.” Yes, but what about the ‘vale?
Deasel (boom, boom, boom): “Will the club now get their act together quickly, and produce and market said flags? I know I'd be more comfortable buying one from Livingston FC than getting a cheap piece of rag from a Glaswegian Spiv [ouch] on the day.”
Plug (get your sportsocks): “LFL will have a small stall o/s the club shop tomorrow before the game selling CIS Cup Final T-shirts and Cup Final Rosettes too. Also available are LFL T-shirts and Livingston football Club Supporter Rosettes. The T's are a tenner and the Rosettes are a fiver. All profits from these items goes straight to LFL. There will be a donation bucket with all proceeds going towards LFL too.” This is about flags, mate, flags…
HAcK: “San Siro eat yer heart oot.” Now, now.
This is proof positive that persistence works, and that common sense generally prevails if enough people jump up and down about it. We won’t match the San Siro overnight, but then again, our fine club and support have a track history of doing things at a pace that most would be ill at. I look forward to the flares, and that old C4 “football Italia” classic of the noise of the crowd being so loud that the pitchside microphones just return that exhilarating static-esq noise, gracing the ‘vale in the near future.
So, flags in hand, we greeted the travelling Jambos. Such generous guests, they have a long and proud tradition of bringing three points for us. Except for this time, obviously. C’mon, can’t you see we need the boost?
Some (perhaps justified) anger at the referee, though…
Flemings: “Referee was [poor], West Stand Linesman was [poor], 2nd game in a row where we have been punished for a few mistakes in defence. Cut out the mistakes and we'll take Celtic on Sunday who better to break their winning run.”
Mon the lions: “Played not too bad for parts but poor defending as well as probably the worst refereeing i've seen all season cost us the match.
Good free kick from makel but every free kick we got near their box after that was aimed at marv or rubio - lets try something new, i mean even the jambos are gonna notice that this is what happens whenever we get a free kick. Great goal from mcmenamenamenamin. Great to see him get on the scoresheet.
Linesman on the side with the dugouts (west stand side) was a complete [clown]. There is no word in the dictionary to describe how bad he was. As for the linesman on the other side, he was a lil better but near the end he couldnt make up his mind as to whether or not he should award hearts a corner, which in the end he did. Even the radio commentators from forth were saying that was a goal kick.
We have to play better than that on sunday against 'tic or we'll get trashed by more goals than the last time.” Oh oh.
Spike: “it IS possible for them to boss the midfield whilst Lovell was our best player. They PHYSICALLY dominated, by kicking the [faecal matter] out of anyone that moved. A good game plan, actually.
Roddy screwed up big time for the 2nd goal. BUt he was fouled for the 3rd. By Marvin it looked like...who was dreadful.
Hearts came for a fight today, but in the first half only Lovell and Rubio gave them it.
Roddy - to blame for at least one goal.
McNamee, [below average] 1st half, good second
O'brien - opposite of macnamee.
Dorado - solid-ish
Rubio - seemed to enjoy the skull-duggery, couple of dodgy moments though
Marv - pants on stick [which is now allowed, courtesy Mr Hood]
Makel - touched ball once in first half. Good touch though. Better 2nd half.
Lovell - DA MAN! Broke up attacks, kept possession, looked the only Livi player interested in winning a header...MotM [agreed]
Fernandez - fits and starts
McMenamin - starts and fits. Nice goal. headless chicken.
Lilley - Robust but never going to be his night "aright Del, we want you to play target man against Pressley"
Pasq. bleh.
Episiarch - great board talk and fan of these little dittys. A salute is offered. [and returned, fellow scribe]
Hearts were better than us. Get over it.”
Charles Darwin Esq: “I tend to accept more objective critiques such as Lionick's here [he provided an objective critique!]. We cannot always be "robbed" and every ref a "disgrace". Sometimes we just plain lose.”
Most comments contained the “we woz robbed” element. I thought a draw would be a fairer result, but hey-ho that’s life – seldom fair. On this occasion, the referee and west stand linesman were rank beyond words, but you get that sometimes – that’s football. Still, we’re in a cup final, eh?
Now onto a subject that’s always good value – TV coverage. First up, it’s our complete lack of it.
Man in Black & Amber: “The first anniversary of our last appearance in a live game on the BBC is fast approaching - come 2 March it will be a full 12 months since we appeared in one of their televised games -maybe we should throw a party and invite the Beeb along !!
By my reckoning there were 35 televised matches last season, including the 2 games on the last day of the season involving the Old Firm. This season there 29 games that have either taken place or are planned through to 4 April 2004. The breakdown of the games is detailed below.
Last Season This Season Total
Celtic 15 12 27
Rangers 14 13 27
Hearts 6 6 12
Hibs 5 6 11
Dundee 6 4 10
Dundee United 5 4 9
Motherwell 3 4 7
Kilmarnock 4 4 8
Dunfermline 5 1 6
Aberdeen 4 1 5
Partick Thistle 2 3 5
Livingston 1 0 1
Have we done something to offend the Beeb ??
Why did they try to wreck the biggest day in our history by trying to change the Hearts v Rangers game to the same day as the CIS Cup Final ??
I thought at one stage they didn't know where the ground was but that was dispelled when they had plenty of cameras there when we went into administration
Don't we pay our TV licences in West Lothian ??
How much in revenue terms has this cost us over the last 2 seasons in relation to advertising and cash payments for hosting the game ?? I'm not suggesting it is their fault we are in administration but they haven't helped the situation
The only other time we have been on the telly was on Setanta against both halves of the Old Firm
What is going on - we deserve our fair share of exposure like any other club in the league”
Lionise: “110% in agreement.
As a matter of fact the BBC should be made to explain to the licence payer in general their reasons for spending our money the way that they do. Recently I have been very tempted to try and get on James Traynor and ask about their bias coverage - doubt they would take the call though. [no, he would agree with you but they would do SFA about it]
No Livi CIS semi final on radio. No Livi on telly. Old Firm matches week in week out with no doubt high fees, including Europe going to these teams.
As a matter of fact they are actually sponsoring them with my money [spot on – even if not in direct cash, certainly in direct advertising and a general exposure that other Scottish businesses don’t get] It is an absolute disgrace. There are many aspects of the BBC I admire but Scottish sport coverage is not one of them.
Let us ask through the Scottish Parliament or some form of television watchdog for an explanation.
Internet coverage each week is a limp excuse as well.”
LiviNeil: “The sooner the BBC get to [a far away place] and leave live TV coverage alone the better. No wonder attendances are falling - and I mean everywhere not just at Livi. TV coverage should be used as an advert for the SPL, but instead what we get does exactly the opposite. Firstly no highlights - unless your team is in the 1st Division that it! Secondly the only live TV coverage we get is one of the old firm beating a.n. other (except us of course) which is dull as dish water. Look at last nights game. That was a great advert for Scottish football, yet only 4500 hardy souls will be able to vouch for that.
I'm going for a lie down before I blow a gasket!!”
That’s it for me. The TV deals should be an advert for all clubs. By concentrating on one-sided and inevitably dull matches, it is having the opposite effect. Another thing that irks me is the lack of honesty in the coverage – if they just came out and said “right, we don’t care about the rest of you we’re just going to show Glasgow”, then at least we’d know where we stood. The pretence of covering, or caring about, the rest of Scottish football really grates on me – so clearly they only care about two clubs, yet they’re not big enough to say it. Which brings us neatly to…
Charles Darwin Esq: “I see today that the SPL has officially sanctioned Old Firm TV courtesy of Setanta. So we'll have 38 Sunday games alternating between Rangers v Someone, Celtic v Someone & Rangers v Celtic. Will I be paying to watch? Sorry, but I have paint to watch dry those weekends. [I suspect that you’re not within their target market, to be fair]
Well, the OF have been playing at being Irish for years, so I suppose it's about time the Irish paid them for the pleasure! And I imagine the 10 lives games available to Eire are on a Saturday so that they don't interfere with mass...” [ouch]
Arkaig: “Totally agree Darwin. You could argue that Satan TV is a foreign station (it is!) and we've sold out to Irish TV. Had the old firm NOT been religiously iconic in their ways would the said Satan TV have had a market at all for the SPL? I don't believe they would.” Interesting point. I wonder how this is going to fit in with their arguments to the Scottish Executive that they are Scottish clubs and good for Scottish football – no bigotry here, g’vnor. Of course, it is the SPL who have signed the deal, not the Old Firm. The Old Firm have (maybe) driven the market that Setanta want to supply, but its murky waters as to whether one party or the other is in the wrong for the deal.
Ayrfan (practically keeps me in a job some weeks): “I keep hearing that broadcasting football is stopping fans turning up at matches. It is unlikely that Livi will appear on a live TV match, so anyone who wants to watch them play will turn up and pay to see them, which is good for Livi and their attendances.
Or......
Is this tirade against Livi not being on TV just sour grapes over not being allowed at the feeding trough of TV appearance money ?”
Arkaig (again): “TV is a marketing tool Ayrfan. Attendances are poor due to the SPL being an overpriced poor product. TV and attendances are unrelated. The premiership has proven that. You need a decent product at a decent price to attract punters.
Secondly, yes lack of Livi TV means less money for the club I love. I am upset at that. We deserve a share of the pot we are members or the SPL after all. It's a blatant snub from the BBC. If I had a choice I would void my licence and not pay.”
Angus_W (Dunfermline’s “finest”): “....The BBCs coverage is a joke, they are after all meant to be impartial....my [bahookey].
We will get a continuous diet of meaningless games involving the OF (.....of course the league is not over!) from now until the end of the season.
I'm glad the deal went to Setanta at least they are honest about what they will show, unlike the BBC who pay lip service to the other 10 teams.” Much as it leaves an unpleasant taste, I agree with the Godless heathen. Let them show the OF to Ireland, I really don’t care. At least we know what the score is now.
The most important development that I would like to see is an extremely comprehensive highlights package on the BBC (or STV or even C5). By its very definition, the highlights package will show the best bits – thereby boosting the perceived quality of the rest of the league. A well put together, and evenly divided up hour-long programme on a Thursday night will start to work on the “maybes”, who waver about attending on the Saturday. This has to be the goal. Give them the highlights, get them through the turnstile.
Next on the agenda is the visit to Celtic Park. It’s a source of constant dismay that we can’t give this crowd the doing they so richly deserve. One day we’ll do it. Provided we play our strongest team, we’re bound to have a chance. Dring dring, dring dring…oh, okay. We’ll leave Fernandez behind no problem at all Mr O’Neill, sir.
Paradude: “It's absolute [nonsense]
He's not 'good' enough to play for Celtic or he would be there but the slightest thought that DF might actually score or assist others to score upsets MON??!!
[away with] him – complete [..ly illegal, that suggestion]”
Andy: “Ok lets look at this another way.
Are we a one player team?
Is David likely to be part of our long term plans?
Are we really more likely to beat Celtic with DF than without.
I'd stick my neck out and say No, No and No.
Of course if we want to find an excuse to rant at the OF again or "why we didn't win" then fair enough. Not my game though.”
Lionise: “Playing Fernandez does him no favours either way.
What ever we think he goes back to Celtic next season. Now I am sure most of us would not like to see him given pelters every game cos he scored against them. David deserves better for his contribution to Livi.
At the same time if he misses a good chance tomorrow we will all feel frustrated by this and some will blame the fact that he had to miss cos he is a Celtic player.
Give the guy a break this is the best option. Of course I still hope Livi stuff Celtic and like Andy, if I were you I would savour every kick of the ball from DF for the rest of the season, as he has been by far our most entertaining player.” Fair points.
Onto the game. We looked good, we surely did. We gave them a fright for a while, but Lilley’s profligacy in front of goal denied him the chance of true hero status, and us the chance of a shock. Celtic run out 5-1 winners, even they must surely feel it flattered them. There’s not really a lot to say…
The Architect: “Simp-le Cel-tic, Al-ways Cheat-ing
i. we aren't allowed to play fernandez
ii. the penalty was soft”
Lord Swinton: “Personally, when Livi play the old firm I always want to see them have a go [referring to a complaint about our attacking line-up]. We had Celtic rattled just before half time .The decision was right to attack them in the second half. Unfortunately on this occasion it did not work. The alternative to this would have been to play defensive and keep the score at 2-1 .We must always have a go , it,s the only way to play the old firm.” Aye. If you try to keep it tight you’ll be gubbed. Have a go – Dundee United did, after all…
Still, we’re in a cup final, eh?
Or maybe not. Celtic-v-Motherwell is scheduled for the same day as the Final by the ever-helpful SPL. It defies belief, it really does.
Gazza: “Could be over 100,000 people drivin doon the motorway on cup final day, aaahhhhh this makes for total chaos, imagine if there is a crash or breakdown. [please, no]
I might have to leave at 9am now [I left 20 minutes ago], i am not missing 1 min of this game !!
Absolutely unreal !!”
Bretford: “They'll just cancel the CIS Cup, it's only a Mickey Mouse Cup being contested by a couple of Diddy Teams.
Everyone free on the 17th, we'll have it then. Unless the Asda beside Hampden is going to be busy in which case we'll both just share the cup.” Cynical. But I’ll bet it was on the agenda for a while.
Ljhibby: “Words fail me.I have a feeling though the Strathclyde police might have a say in the matter. Shows up the [cretins] at the spl for what they are. [Imperialist running dogs, the lot of them]. I was worried how to get there and back. God knows what time the hibs fans will get back especially if hibs will be parading the trophy [no need to worry there, then]. Utter chaos. It can only happen in Scotland.”
Cornish Lady: “Whilst we are used to being treated like dirt...Hibs are a well established team. I know dozens of their fans who are making the effort to go to the final.............by bus and car, if I were them I would be reconsidering, or setting out a lot earlier...and very hacked off.
And it's not just the travel....why should CIS Insurance or anyone else for that matter continue to sponsor a competition that the SPL hold in such contempt. Funny how it's a Mickey Mouse Cup unless you need it as your only cup...or ..to make the double...or to make the treble.
Sorry but the Bigot Brothers and the [bottom feeding] SPL really do [hack] me off.
Well thats my rant over.”
Many, many rants, all with the same theme. The SPL once again treat the CIS Cup with absolute contempt. Fair enough, Celtic have to fit in their fixtures and this is the only spot in the calendar. What on earth would they have done had Celtic been in the final? They’re a shower of imbeciles, the lot of them. It’s going to be bad enough for the two teams to find their way to Hampden as it is (let’s face it – not much practice), but this is really going to complicate matters. Practicalities aside, the powers-that-be are essentially saying “we don’t care about this cup final”. I wonder why?
We’ve had a sorry run of form. What can possibly cheer us up? Ah…it’s Aberdeen in the cup. Unfortunately, this time we’re fairly lucky to escape with a chance for a replay. Roddy McKenzie, we love you…
HAcK: “Just back. Unable to call the game the way it went. Aberdeen had more possession, and were on top...but Livingston had much the better chances (Lilley missing a number of GREAT chances, notably two one on ones with the keeper) Aberdeen did have a couple of good chances, but Roddy was in good form to foil them when they really should have taken the lead, twice.
Great game, loads of action...but surprised no one was subbed.”
Mon the lions: “If it wasn’t for Roddy, we'd be out the cup. Great few saves, especially the double save he made just before half-time.
It wasnt the best of games [not what HAcK says]. Lovell should never have been booked but then again, it was mcdonald refereeing so... Lovell played terrible, no clue as to why he wasnt subbed. Surprised to see no changes at all throughout the game, especially with lovell playing badly and lilley not scoring. Fernandez didnt play to the best of his ability but again, like most of the team, lets just hope they turn up the style for the cup final next week.
Now for some positives (yea there were some!). Mcnamee made some good runs in the second half and was unlucky not to score near the end. Mcallister had a great chance after a corner in the first half but it was well saved by preece. Once again, roddy made some great saves and should have been given MOM as fernandez did not play as well as we know he can.
All in all, we should have won but didnt take the chances we created. Although in saying that, we will get some money from the gate and from the pies/drinks/etc in the replay. Plus, as SKY have the TV rights for the Scottish Cup and are allowed to show 1 replay from each round - providing that either 'tic or gers win outright tomorrow - then the game could be televised on SKY.”
Spike (indispensable match reports): “Roddy - Great double save, but purely because the first save was dreadful. Solid otherwise.
David - Nice swashbuckling second-half display. Better than StevenC could do...
Jamie - Solid throughout
Manu - Composed throughout
Marv - Big throughout
Oscar - Did quite well
Makel - See O'Brien
O'brien - See Makel [I’m seeing double – four Krustys]
Lovell - Only midfielder who wanted to put a foot in, as the other two seemed unduly concerned about the dangers of injuries. Passes didn’t always come off, but put in a shift, and shouted many orders, usually at the other two to put a foot in...
Fernandez - Less than good.
Lilley - Cow. [backside]. Banjo. You know the drill.”
And in a bizarre twist to our earlier TV story…
Croftie: “The replay against Aberdeen is on Thursday 18th....on SKY.”
Tam1314: “We could be in for a nice wee earner here £82,500 from Sky for the replay and if we win the same again for the semi-final plus half the gate receipts, could be close on £500,000” And all of it to the creditors.
Two live games in four days. None on the BBC, I would point out. We’re such media tarts. ‘mon the Lions…
…there’s only one thing on our minds now. At the time of writing, a mere three sleeps to go.
Tam1314: “Not long now folks to arguably the biggest day in our clubs short history.
This is going to be fantastic and l for one cant wait, this is better than Christmas LOL”
So, where to start? Let’s start with the crowd…we have about 6,000 and the confused-green-bunch have mustered 38,000 or so. So what.
Italion: “Should the people of West Lothian be ashamed??
Out of a catchment area of 250,000 plus we can only sell 6000 tickets for our FIRST cup final.
Maybe West Lothian does not deserve to have a sucessfull SPL team!!!!!!!
To quote Stuart Lovell in todays Sun Newspaper "I know football is expensive every week, but surely for a one-off game - a final where we could win - more people could come along.
We've done our bit on the park............".
It's hard not to agree with him.” Indeed. Although you’ve lucky if there are many more than 6,000 Livi fans able to go to the game. You’re lucky if there are more than 6,000 genuine Livi fans in total, being honest. I have no problem with this – we’re a small SPL club, and an extremely young one at that.
Spiggle: “think the numbers we have going is pretty good for a club in existence 9 years. Hibs have been in existence over 100 years, surely they should have 12 times our numbers going to the Final and every week.
We may be a young club but our support is growing.
Unlike some teams.....”
Euan_Rennie: “At least its a fair reflection of our home support not like the 35,000 of Hibs!
It will take a generation at least for the support of Livingston to evolve and for us to gain a proper fan base as fans of other clubs are going to readily jump ship to support their home club if they’ve been supporting another club all their life! If you had said in 1995 that Livingston would be taking 7,000 to a cup final in 9 years time then i think the club and everyone involved with the club would have been very happy with that!” Bingo.
Andy: “HMMM...
First the figures.. My understanding is that the West Lothian catchment area is nearer 160,000 (significantly less than the 250,000 quoted) and if we are realistic and count the town of Livingston as the prime catchment area then the numbers are nearer 50,000. I'd say we have sold tickets to near 10% of those we could realistically consider to be within our grasp and that is a pretty good rate of return [my understanding is that 10% is the likely maximum that a football club can expect from it’s local catchment – Ipswich Town are the acknowledged masters of getting people in the door, and 10% is their week-in, week-out ratio]. Not a huge number, but get this - we aren't a City team - we are a small town team!
One thing for sure, the way to convert and encourage our support to grow is not to sit back and slag those that aren't going. The way forward is to be positive and active. [something we’ve generally always been, until we got to the SPL, funnily]
Livingston for Life are soon to be printing and distributing leaflets aimed at encouraging people to give Livi a try. if you really want things to get better and to sell double the tickets at our next final (later this season?) then join in!”
Wulsonforlivi: “Any slagging off regarding the size of the Livi support is out of order - good points have already been made about a) the age of the team, compared to the rest of the SPL, and b) the size of the catchment area. I too am a bit disappointed at the turnout - I thought that a few more people would be interested in turning out for the first time, including some 'neutral' fans - NOT fans switching allegiance, 'glory hunters' is the term that has been used, but just football and non-football fans looking for what should be a great day out. But overall I am delighted that Livi are taking 6000+ to the game. [yup]
West Lothian is apparently one of the few areas of Scotland where the population is growing, and we don't need to keep repeating the same old mantra (but I will) that the youngsters coming to the games today will bring their own youngsters in years to come, and the Livi support will grow. This is something the other SPL teams, such as Hibs, have benefitted from for decades - Livi have had 8 years!!
The fan base we have 'is what it is' at this moment in time, and we shouldn't stoop to comparing ourselves to other teams, or feeling ashamed or defensive. We'll enjoy the day whatever the size of support and we'll make a lot of noise . . .[and that’s the bottom line]
. . . and our 'wee team' will bring the cup home with them!!”
Dare to believe. It’s the eleven players (on each side) on the pitch who will decide the outcome of the tie, not the fans in the crowd.
Dark and dangerous: “There has been a lot written about the amount of supporters both teams will have. But our players are used to our support, being in the minority. But the hibs players will not be used to having such an overwhelming majority cheering them on as they will on Sunday.”
LiviNeil: “What you find with 'part-time' supporters (is that an oxymoron?) is they are the first to get on their own players backs if things aren't going well. That is when having such a large "support" might not be so beneficial. However if Hibs score early then the opposite will be the case, and the large "support" could be an advantage.
But at the end of the day, it's the players who have the biggest influence along with the tactical knowledge of Messers Hay and Williamson (is that another oxymoron?).
Anyways - I CANNAE WAIT!!! 4 more sleeps!”
MAMS: “I have heard lots of talk (and typing) recently about facing the mighty (yeah right) Hibs in the Final this coming Sunday with the fact they put out both sides of the OF.
Please remember that the Celtic team they defeated was not full strength (oh and ICT have twice put them out of cups, so they're used to being put out by diddy teams) and that the current Rangers team is probably the worst I've seen in 15 years.
What the Hibees fail to remember is that Livi got to the final by putting THREE SPL teams out of the Cup, and all three of those games have been away from home.
Those three team (Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and Dundee) were not easy to beat - just ask Hibs who have not won at Pittodrie, Tannadice or Dens this season. In fact they have only won 3 games and drawn 2 away from home (according to Hibernianfc.co.uk) unlike Livi who fair better away from home with so far with 8 wins away from home.
Now if the Final was being played at Easter Road I may have been worried as they're home form is better.
I'm not trying (although it looks like it) to take anything away from the Hibs as they HAVE got to the final by going through both sides of the OF.
My point is that some Hibees seen to think they had the hard way to the cup final, I personally think that our "Road to hampden" wasn't that easy either.”
Energy_drink: “[I] think you [Livi] fans should remember that the [Hibs] team [has] not been at full [strength] either! [We have had] our two best players out of action! [No] one is saying we will [definitely] win[,] we are just saying [that] if we play [to] the same [standard as previously] we will [definitely] win! [Why] do [I] have to keep repeating this [-] are [you Livi] fans that stupid? [You can’t] deny that putting both teams out the cup is a great achievement! [Why wouldn’t Celtic] want to win the cup[?] [They can’t] get the treble without it! [I’m] sure they [did not plan] to get [beaten, while] in their dressing room.
[PS We] have won at [Tannadice - the] first game of the season! [Also,] look at [our] cup form [compared to our] league form! [I’d] start [to] get scared if [I] were [you]!”
I despair, I really do. Some pretty decent (although sometimes contradictory) points, but what is going on with our education system? Nobody can write or post in a perfect manner at all times, but this is really concerning. It took me ten minutes just to figure out what the little fellow was trying to say. It’s a crying shame, and no mistake. Far more deserving of pity than the scorn he received, I would suggest.
DELirious: “My enduring memory of the last time we met at Hampden was on the bus leaving the ground I noticed two young lads (maybe 6 or 7) walking along the pavement with scarves, rosettes, woolly hats, flags, the works; one in green and white and one in black and gold. Behind them, what I assumed were their fathers, wandering along deep in conversation. The whole sight seemed so natural and at least eased the pain of the result a little – family friendly indeed.
I was glad when I found out who’d we’d be meeting in the final firstly because the Hibs fans are generally a good laugh (although I’ll reserve judgement on all the one-time-jimmies), the old firm are not involved at all, win or lose it’s a nice little earner for the club but most of all…….
WE WILL BE GETTING OUR REVENGE FOR LAST TIME!”
I have similar memories myself. Here’s hoping it’s the abiding memory of the 45,000 or so who are there on Sunday too. I’ll leave the final words on this to BrianW…
“We have had more than the usual amount of attention lately from the media and opposition fans comparing us to other clubs and thinking we have no chance of success in the CIS cup final. When we have succeeded over the years it has been against all the odds. They don’t know what we know as Livi fans.
We won each of the 3rd, 2nd and 1st divisions without making expensive signings or having a big fan base. Our first big cup win away from home was to beat a strong Aberdeen team 1-0 as a 2nd division side with Robbo’s goal – who was approaching the end of his playing years. Our first season in the SPL, where we took points from both sides of the old firm, took 12 points from Hearts, finished 3rd in the league and qualified for the UEFA cup.
Now we face our first major cup final at Hampden. It looks as if we have about 6000 or so Livi fans going which is about the same as we would get for a home game against the old firm or about 1500 more than a non OF game. Hibs are taking what could be nearly 40,000 – almost 4 or 5 times the amount of home fans they would normally get. At times they will make a lot of noise – but only at times. We can take the rest of the time to make ourselves heard and let the team know we are there backing them all the way. Our pre match welcome will be second to none and not even the large Hibs crowd will be able to beat it. We will have the quality support instead of the quantity. In some ways the smaller size of our support will be a focus of attention and make us more noticeable than if we had filled half of the stadium.
A special message for Stuart and the guys – don’t be disappointed about the number of fans we are taking through – I’m not. It’s been the same since we started our short historic journey and it will be for a while longer until more people realise what they are missing by travelling out of West Lothian to follow other teams instead of their local one. We may be small in numbers but we will be big in heart and be behind you all 100%. We are all in the middle of a difficult time just now – but when 3 o’clock on Sunday comes around we can put that behind us and show everyone that Livi is more than just a larger support, more than a hundred years of history, more than narrow minded obsessions against opposition fans – we are the future of football and it CAN succeed whatever the odds.
COME ON THE LIONS!!!”
Once more, it’s the end and thank you for sitting through it all. If anybody would like to comment, or have a right of reply regards anything above, then please feel free to PM or FAO me on the boards.
More stuff than I can shake my walking stick at has been missed out due to time and space constraints (maybe The Doctor can help), including Willie Dunn spending taxpayers money on his internet connection to LiviLions, Bigbadboab had a (101% justified) moan, “Roddy sells it AGAIN” (maybe he should work with Plug), the Golden Shower is back (smirk, smirk), 12 hooters for £1, common sense hits Dundee (goneforever left it – just kidding), Roughy shows us his kecks, Samuel Johnson returns renewed, limericks were all the rage (believe me – get over to the unleished board and read some of them), clowns are evil and dropping your roll-on-sausage really sucks. I can imagine. Until next time…
Yours in Livi,
The Episiarch